What if you want kids.... and your partner doesn't?
Note: I've revised this orginal blog post in light of some valid criticisms and have explained this in the comments section.
Janet is thirty-one and soon to be thirty-two. She wants children, has always wanted children.
‘There has never been a point when I didn’t always know that it was a given that I’d have children.‘
She’s now with a partner who she has been with for six years who is the same age as she is. Yet, although he wants children some day, for him now is not the time.
‘Mark has a fear of giving up what he enjoys about his life now. None of his friends have kids yet and he has no role models his age with children. His best friend is talking about having kids but Mark sees it as pressure on him. His career is taking off, we have all these grand plans with the renovation of the house, he is worried that now is not the right time.‘
Janet is all too aware of the biological clock and the problems that she might have in conceiving.
‘At thirty-two, I wanted to be in the position of at least trying to conceive. It’s a very practical decision – I want more than one child and if we don’t start until my mid thirties conceiving the first, then I will be older when we conceive the second.‘
For Janet, the problem is around the unpredictability of what may or may not happen.
‘You don’t know how long it will take – it took a friend only two to three months to conceive. If I was to conceive now, it would be too soon. Yet, I know it could take much longer and then if there were complications, we’d have to go for tests and procedures.‘
Janet feels the unfairness of the situation – that men don’t have the same pressures or worries.
‘Men in their thirties still feel that they are young – they don’t feel the urgency of the situation. So many of my friends are in the same position. He is in denial'.
One contributor to this blog said:
'It is my observation among many of my friends (I am 31 by the way) that while my female friends are aware that this is a crucial time for fertility etc. their male partners are still keen to live their life as they did through their twenties. They are often reluctant to fully commit to their relationship let alone contemplate having kids. Newspaper articles berate 'selfish' women yet often fail to mention the other side of the story: men that are refusing to grow up and follow our biological lead.'
Often, the problem isn't that their partner has decided he wants to be childfree - the problem is that there is a lack of communication between the two about what they really want in their future, whether they want children or not.
If you are in a relationship with a man who doesn't want children, in your mid thirties and want children, you need to be bold and take the 'bull by the horns.' Questions to ask yourself before approaching your partner include:
1) How long am I prepared to wait before we start trying for a child?
2) Have I established whether he does want children?
3) What is my 'bottom line' and what am I willing to compromise on i.e I am willing to wait one year before we start trying and what am I not willing to compromise on i.e. I need to have a definate start date and I need to have a clear answer from him about whether he wants children or not.
Then, set a time and date to have a through discussion with your partner about the issue. Express your worries and concerns. Ask him is he really sees children in his future. Ask him what HIS bottom line is and what he is willing to compromise on.
I sometimes meet women who are desparate for children but in relationship with men who are very reluctant and who are constantly stalling the issue. At some point, these women have to face the issue - if having a child is so important to me, and my partner doesn't want to even discuss having a child, is this relationship viable?
I'll end this post with the story of Laura - a single mother I've interviewed for the book.
Laura had several serious long-term relationships in her early twenties and thirties. When the issue of children was brought up however, the men always prevaricated – it wasn’t the right time, they were too young, they weren’t sure - there was always some excuse.
‘I just accepted it – I thought the decision should be mutual, consensual and I shouldn’t put pressure on them. I wasn’t so worried at first – not about my fertility and I thought I had plenty of time. Most of my friends were younger and didn’t have kids and fertility didn’t seem to be a big issue.‘
As she got older, a few warning bells started to ring. Her sister and her husband were having trouble having kids and a friend of hers who left it till her early forties and was now desperate for a child made her more aware of the limitations on fertility.
At thirty-five, she spilt up from a long-term boyfriend and was single.
I was at a real crossroads – I decided to leave a job I hated and go travelling, do some volunteer work in a developing country. I was in a casual relationship - nothing serious and no demands. And then three weeks after I had left my job, rented out my flat and moved into a temporary house share, I found out I was pregnant. It was a complete accident – it just happened because I forgot to be careful.‘
Laura assumed that it would be difficult to get pregnant, that it would take planning and would take a long time but, as it happened, it didn’t.
‘I can’t believe that if it hadn’t happened like this, by accident, it might not have happened at all. My only regret is that I left it so long and that I didn’t force the issue earlier with my previous partners. I always deferred to their needs and their indecision. Now, I always say to women just get on with it! If you want kids, don’t hang about and don’t let your partners block your decision either. Waiting around for the perfect relationship or perfect time is ridiculous. I wasn’t in my ideal situation - I didn’t want to be a single parent but I am and I have this lovely little boy now. It’s a life I wouldn’t change for anything.‘
Janet is thirty-one and soon to be thirty-two. She wants children, has always wanted children.
‘There has never been a point when I didn’t always know that it was a given that I’d have children.‘
She’s now with a partner who she has been with for six years who is the same age as she is. Yet, although he wants children some day, for him now is not the time.
‘Mark has a fear of giving up what he enjoys about his life now. None of his friends have kids yet and he has no role models his age with children. His best friend is talking about having kids but Mark sees it as pressure on him. His career is taking off, we have all these grand plans with the renovation of the house, he is worried that now is not the right time.‘
Janet is all too aware of the biological clock and the problems that she might have in conceiving.
‘At thirty-two, I wanted to be in the position of at least trying to conceive. It’s a very practical decision – I want more than one child and if we don’t start until my mid thirties conceiving the first, then I will be older when we conceive the second.‘
For Janet, the problem is around the unpredictability of what may or may not happen.
‘You don’t know how long it will take – it took a friend only two to three months to conceive. If I was to conceive now, it would be too soon. Yet, I know it could take much longer and then if there were complications, we’d have to go for tests and procedures.‘
Janet feels the unfairness of the situation – that men don’t have the same pressures or worries.
‘Men in their thirties still feel that they are young – they don’t feel the urgency of the situation. So many of my friends are in the same position. He is in denial'.
One contributor to this blog said:
'It is my observation among many of my friends (I am 31 by the way) that while my female friends are aware that this is a crucial time for fertility etc. their male partners are still keen to live their life as they did through their twenties. They are often reluctant to fully commit to their relationship let alone contemplate having kids. Newspaper articles berate 'selfish' women yet often fail to mention the other side of the story: men that are refusing to grow up and follow our biological lead.'
Often, the problem isn't that their partner has decided he wants to be childfree - the problem is that there is a lack of communication between the two about what they really want in their future, whether they want children or not.
If you are in a relationship with a man who doesn't want children, in your mid thirties and want children, you need to be bold and take the 'bull by the horns.' Questions to ask yourself before approaching your partner include:
1) How long am I prepared to wait before we start trying for a child?
2) Have I established whether he does want children?
3) What is my 'bottom line' and what am I willing to compromise on i.e I am willing to wait one year before we start trying and what am I not willing to compromise on i.e. I need to have a definate start date and I need to have a clear answer from him about whether he wants children or not.
Then, set a time and date to have a through discussion with your partner about the issue. Express your worries and concerns. Ask him is he really sees children in his future. Ask him what HIS bottom line is and what he is willing to compromise on.
I sometimes meet women who are desparate for children but in relationship with men who are very reluctant and who are constantly stalling the issue. At some point, these women have to face the issue - if having a child is so important to me, and my partner doesn't want to even discuss having a child, is this relationship viable?
I'll end this post with the story of Laura - a single mother I've interviewed for the book.
Laura had several serious long-term relationships in her early twenties and thirties. When the issue of children was brought up however, the men always prevaricated – it wasn’t the right time, they were too young, they weren’t sure - there was always some excuse.
‘I just accepted it – I thought the decision should be mutual, consensual and I shouldn’t put pressure on them. I wasn’t so worried at first – not about my fertility and I thought I had plenty of time. Most of my friends were younger and didn’t have kids and fertility didn’t seem to be a big issue.‘
As she got older, a few warning bells started to ring. Her sister and her husband were having trouble having kids and a friend of hers who left it till her early forties and was now desperate for a child made her more aware of the limitations on fertility.
At thirty-five, she spilt up from a long-term boyfriend and was single.
I was at a real crossroads – I decided to leave a job I hated and go travelling, do some volunteer work in a developing country. I was in a casual relationship - nothing serious and no demands. And then three weeks after I had left my job, rented out my flat and moved into a temporary house share, I found out I was pregnant. It was a complete accident – it just happened because I forgot to be careful.‘
Laura assumed that it would be difficult to get pregnant, that it would take planning and would take a long time but, as it happened, it didn’t.
‘I can’t believe that if it hadn’t happened like this, by accident, it might not have happened at all. My only regret is that I left it so long and that I didn’t force the issue earlier with my previous partners. I always deferred to their needs and their indecision. Now, I always say to women just get on with it! If you want kids, don’t hang about and don’t let your partners block your decision either. Waiting around for the perfect relationship or perfect time is ridiculous. I wasn’t in my ideal situation - I didn’t want to be a single parent but I am and I have this lovely little boy now. It’s a life I wouldn’t change for anything.‘
Comments
Also, be careful before talking about the good old days. Yes, back then men married younger and had kids right away. And women stayed home and cleaned house and raised kids without many other options.
Women would be offended if we told them to stop being so selfish and immature by wanting an education and job instead of having kids at 18. So don't complain that men are exercising their options as well.
Queenb - I totally take your point. I need to rethink how this is presented because I see how it comes across as equating choosing to be childfree with being a kidult - not what I want to do at all!
I guess what I consider immature isn't about men/women saying they want to be childfee, or that they don't want kids and being willing and able to communicate that desire to there partner - that's a pretty mature thing to do! And honest.
What I think I mean about being a kid-adult and what I think some of the women I've talked to who are in this situation, is when the guy is delaying things or trying to put off the issue through saying things like 'Oh, yes, I would like kids someday but I'm too young' And it's not when they are under 25 - this is from men in their late 30's. Or not even wanting to discuss the issue or being dismissive of their partner when they bring it up.
I think that's what is frustrating.
I think that while these women's partners should consider giving up their freedom to fit in with their partner's needs, women should consider adoption as a viable option that might fit in with their partner's needs. The couple would still get to be parents, but it is not set to any biological clock. I would be interested to read what these women had to say about adoption.
So rather than making a wider statement about maturity, I think you should address your specific concerns - lack of communication, indecisiveness...
'Kidult' - a man who doesn't want to grow up, to take on adult responsibilities. Every example of men you place this label upon seem to be very stable adults; jobs, houses, mortgages, heads on their shoulders. These aren't men in their 30s and 40s living in their mother's basement and working part time at a local fast food joint. Their choice not to procreate yet, or ever, is based on concerns over finances, time and career concerns. This is a very adult approach to the major decision of bringing a child into the world.
Your label of men being kidults is also missing the number of women who would fall within the parameter of your definition. While your might experience more women in your practice who desire children with partners who do night there are also men who desire children whose partners are delaying the decision.
Good luck with your book and research.
http://thebritgirl.com/2008/01/09/on-men-kidults-and-not-wanting-kids/
Your equating of men who don't desire, or are indecisive about having children simply because of the ticking of a woman's biological clock as basically men who refuse to grow up and take on responsibility is, to me, offensive. It points the way to having unwanted children. Having children does not necessarily make either party mature. listening to each other and respecting the others decision (including the decision not to have kids)is the better sign of maturity.
There are plenty of men who have given in to the incessant pressure from their partners to have children only to find out it was a mistake to do so and to wish they had not allowed themselves to be talked into doing something they did not want to do.
Maybe their views ought be considered also rather than just women who are desperate for children?
I think what you are meaning is "biological clock engaging prevaricator" or similar.
These things happen. I recall a firestorm over a bloggers misinterpretation of the word "pouf" in relation to John Edwards. The blogger thought the word meant 'gay' when in fact it means boyant hairstyle.
When I met my partner I told her I never wanted kids, she accepted that but after a year together she announced quite suddenly that she wanted children, I still don't. I'm thirty and she's thirty one. My concerns over rearing kids are many and varied, some personal - I had a bad childhood and don't value family in the same way she does, others are practical, it'd be crushingly expensive and the biggest investment of my adult life, my house, would be sacrificed on the alter of parenthood. Others are for and because of the world in which we live; do we need more people here? Are the people I see having lots of kids going to do a good enough job to ensure that my child isn't stuck in a world with more unpleasant people than there even are now? I love my girlfriend dearly but I've had six months of incessant pressure on the issue. I've even caved in on and agreed to have children with her, to sell my house, pay off her mortgage and to financially support her so she doesn't have to work for the first five years of our child/children's lives. My condition being that if we're to do it, we're to do a good job of it - She protested about losing her job. I've said that although having kids terrifies me, I would do the best job as a father that I could and put our offspring first. She's not happy with this - She wants me to be happy and excited about the decision to have kids and not just accepting...
I've been honest from the start, I'm responsible, independant, I have a career, I'm driven by logical decisions, I'm a generous, loving partner what else must I do to prove that my decision to NOT have children is not because I'm trapped in some selfish prolonged childhood? With a childhood like the one I had, the first sixteen years of my life were spent trying to escape it! Calling men like me 'kiddults' is highly insulting and I would counter that the women who say "I want it so I deserve to get it" are perhaps the ones who didn't learn a very prevalant maxim often cited to children: "I want doesn't get". A final applicable trueism: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".
I'm waiting for her to confirm whether or not she's prepared to stay with me, I've been waiting for a fortnight now, she doesn't want to get my stuff together so I can pick it up because that's "too final", yet she doesn't want to see me either. If this relationship ends it'll be the third one I've lost since I was twenty because my partners wanted kids and I didn't. I reiterate; Am I stuck in childhood? Am I "a kiddult"?
I am interested to know if there is anyone who has been through the same thing as what I am going through right now and what their decision was? Did you regret leaving (if you left)? or do you regret not having kids (if you changed your mind)? or does he resent you for forcing him to make a decision he wasn't ready for?
It was interesting to read a man's point of view, mainly one who can articulate his points very well.
Also. Having children doesn't require maturity but bringing them up does. And this is when, I guess, some people fall into the immature category. Because in this case the immaturity doesn't have anything to do with adult social life responsibilities but with SELFLESSNESS. Because once a parent, one has to change their life priorities. Nothing wrong of wanting to lead a life of perpetual self-indulgence or goods accumulation but this sometimes, yes, has a lot to do with refusing to grow up, which isn't wrong but has its consequences. Because people who live so much in the now tend to forget that one day mortality will strike them somehow, and that all these might give them a bitter hindsight. I'm afraid that this denial of aging doesn't halt death - I will come back to this point. Thanks to some people's geographical location, there is still the possibility of CHOICE. That being of whether I want to live a life attending to my own needs or if I want to include others in the package.
(continues...)
Now, I'd like to go back to the mortality issue. Amongst all the sensations experienced during my ill-fated pregnancy, there was this aftermath one, that has made life inside my head hell: that like a writer said the other day, that life after death is our children (if we are lucky enough to have them and to die before them). And this hit me so hard, in such a deep and instinctive way that it has made me reconsider the whole business. I had never given that much thought to the continuity issue. And I realised that it is important for me. But it is not important for everyone, it isn't possible to generalise.
I understand some men's point of view on this but I also notice that even the most caring and assertive man who doesn't want to have children, doesn't have a clue about the physical, emotional, biological, and existential issue that this also is for a woman. I myself didn't know it, and I have been humbled by the whole experience. And I am now facing this dilemma between staying and waiting, and leaving and trying to do this probably on my own. It is tough and maddening. It makes me question if there is an absolute value for love because I can disconnect love from creation. It has been a shift on my mind.
To finalize this - sorry - huge comment I would like to say that this is not a discussion of mere rational content. That rationalising the issue is necessary for its discussion but that sometimes the biggest organ involved in it is the human heart, and this is what makes the whole thing very hard.
When it comes to the emotional side of having children, personally, I have no emotional reason strong enough to make it a good idea for me that would overcome the practical and logistical reasons that make it a bad idea for me. Emotionally, I'm at my happiest when I'm free and when I have lots of choices, when I can choose what I want from my day, of course I have to work but it's how I spend my time outside of work that I like to choose. I don't need to feel that I should be engaged on some mighty project that takes up most of my life and puts me in a vulnerable position financially, emotionally and legally. Hopefully I'll meet somebody who appreciates the same things, if I don't then at least my time and my resources will be well enough spent achieving other forms of happiness. No route is wrong or right for everybody, only that which best suits the individual. Given that the world's not short of people and it's an undeniable fact of life that it would be a benefit to other people's (wanted) children if I didn't produce unwanted children, I'm happy to not have children at all and be contented that others are raising theirs well. Having spent the past fortnight in the company of two (appx. 10 yrs) children and having assisted in their care and entertainment, I know it's not what I want to do with my life, particularly as I saw their mother at her absolute wit's ends and at the point of breakdown with the stress of it all.
It's easier, more profitable and more enjoyable being an adult who lives in the adult world and makes adult choices.
I don't think I'll ever feel any differently. No choice is more 'right' than the other and no choice is worthy of forcing upon others who don't want it.
As far as life after death, that doesn't exist at all, whether your kids are alive or not they're still different people from you. The experiences they have before your death (let alone after it) are not yours no matter how much you micro-manage their experiences. Immortality is a ridiculous premise, you could spend your life teaching kids and be remembered by more than if you brought a couple (or more) up, you wouldn't 'live on' through any of them and your genetic heritage doesn't matter to you when you're cold. When you're dead, you're dead, they live THEIR lives, you've lived YOURS. Personally I don't have any desire to invest twenty years intensively and less intensively, the rest of my life into the creation of another or others (even if they have got 'my nose'), my life is enough for me, the world doesn't need my kids, I don't need to have them to feel complete. Make your choice, live your life and don't complain!
All the best from a childfree and happy man.
But there is of course the metaphoric interpretation of it. In my case - and I was talking merely about how I myself felt about that - it has do with the desire of passing on whatever I have lived or learnt. But with no intention of imposing anything on anyone. Having children implies in a series of contingencies, it is not a project for personal delight, one has children to release them into the world. It is true that the world somehow doesn't need more people but it does need more people who would attend for it. That is why I also talked about adopting - I guess some of us could help with the "unwanted" children issue.
I saw that another woman made a similar post a few years ago and asked if anyone has been in this situation and has made a decision that they could share with us. I didn't notice responses, but was wondering if anyone since that time has been in a similiar situation. Do you feel you made the right choice? Do you have any regrets? Would you be able to share any other insight?
Sorry you haven't received a reply yet to your question.
One thing I would suggest is to explore the option of couples counselling or coaching with your partner. It can really help you both work out what you want together - and what your future could look like with or without children. Then you can make the decision about what you want to do - whether you want to leave or stay.
Jenn-
I am in a similar position. At the time being I have not made a decision on what I am going to do. I am 30 and he is 32. We have been together for 2 yrs and I want to have a child in the near future (3-4 yrs) and he is a big maybe closer to no. When we started dating we both didn’t want to have children for real and valid reasons. We built and developed a beautiful relationship based on choice, acceptance and transparency. My choice about having a child has changed. I want a child. He, respectably feels the same way he did 2 yrs ago. We have talked about it and the pending decision that I am faced with is Well do I stay with him in a realistically perfect relationship with an above 75% chance of not having a child. Or leaving this great guy in hopes of finding someone else who I can build a strong foundation with and have a child. Talk about a rough place to be…
-Do I decide to stay with him and not have a child and hope I don’t resent this choice in the future
-Do I leave and hope I find someone who is where I am and that we can build that perfect foundation etc
-Does he say yes let’s have a child with the possibility of resentment in the future
-Do we buy a dog and live happily ever after
And what sucks the most is that whatever choice I make there is no guarantee of the outcome. “Such is life! Right?”
I spoke to my boss today (briefly, like honestly I said 1 sentence and he replied with 5)
He told me that he was in a 7 yr relationship (happy) and that he wanted to have a child and she did not. They went separate ways and today they are both married with children (her 2 and him 4)
Which just goes to show you never never know….
I will share an update when I make a decision.
Email #1
Talk to him! Don’t rush into anything. Just take your time. These are all big life decisions.
I will leave you with one thought though – I have had friends who continued in relationships with men who did not want marriage or children. They subsequently either got pregnant anyway (deceived their husband) or they resented them for holding them back from what they truly wanted. You don’t want either of these things to happen. So if he won’t bend or reconsider, consider yourself warned. You don’t want to be in a position 2 years from now where you’ve just found out you’re pregnant and he doesn’t want you to keep the baby. Or, he resents you for getting pregnant and is feels like you’ve tricked him. Or, you’re miserable as all your friends are having babies and you want one also. He’s being honest with you about the way he feels right now, so don’t plan on him changing his mind. He will say, ‘I told you’.
Not trying to be preachy, just trying to get you to see all sides – you are a smart, beautiful woman. You will make the right decision, I’m sure of it! But take your time.
Email #2
I just don’t want you to stay in a relationship because you’re afraid of being without him and afraid of the thought that maybe you’re making the wrong decision.
You need to be prepared to make a decision for yourself. Unless of course you can live without ‘marriage and a child’.
Warm regards,
Blahhh
“Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending.” -Maria Robinson
“Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.” -Marilyn Monroe
“Nothing diminishes anxiety faster than action.” -Walter Anderson
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” -George Bernard Shaw
We have decided to break up. It is the most painful feeling I have experience thus far. It is important to go for what you want “chase your dreams” and that is what I shall do.
Best of luck to anyone faced with this heart tearing decision.
Sincerely,
Blahhh
I am 33 and have been with my husband almost 8 years married almost 5. He is almost 44. As soon as we met I asked if he would have children again as when we met his children were 14 and 12. He said he would. Since than and before we got married and he always said he really could take or leave have another children but if that is what I wanted he would have another one. He we are now with his children at 19 and 22. We had always talked about waiting until the 2nd children was off to college which was now a year and a half ago and I am faced with the fact that he has now decied no way does he want to have another kid. He just does not want to start over. Now I am not sure what I want. I always wanted to have at least one child. I am an only child and would alse be the one to have my parent only grandchild. I love children but since my years of helping raise to teenages and faced with lossing not only my husband but two adult children I have been a part of for 8 years I find myself wondering how much of wanting a child is because that is what i always though. I have a very traditional family and growing up that is just what happens you get married and have kids. And now I live in a very modern family with travel, a lavish life style, two almost adult kids that are doing college and learninga aboult life and now I question what I want...
Do I want kids because that is what you do? Or am I just questioning not having them out of the fear of lossing what I have now? - WOW is my head spinning
Since day one I asked since he already had two children and the answer was yes. I just found out that a year and half ago when his youngest went to college that he decided he did not want to have another child and go through it all again. He has not told me until now as he did not want to hurt me but hodling it in has now made him distance himself from out marriage as well. at the site of lossing him and also my step children I find my self wondering since I do enjoy out life as we have it weather I really want a baby? DId I want one because growing up in a traditional family that is just what you do is get married and have kids or because as an only shild my family line now stops at me... or do I love the freedon and life style we have now and maybe how I feel has changed. How do I pick between a family I have now and one maybe I will have or not have in the future????